Subsystems

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marque
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Subsystems

Postby marque » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:05 pm

Ships are made of parts. Let's use this topic to break down the ship into its sub-components.
  • Hull
  • Propulsion
  • Pirate Communications
  • Situational Awareness
  • Defense Systems
    • Electronic countermeasures
    • Public Shaming
  • Pirate Comfort
  • Food/Supplies
  • Cargo
    • Profit
    • Security
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Ben Stone
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Re: Subsystems

Postby Ben Stone » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:55 pm

Cargo
Commerce is the key to freedom.
A cargo can be human, or non-human. It can be "permitted" or "forbidden". It can be bulk or compact.

The wonderful thing about a lighter than air vessel is that it can be flown safely at very low elevations, well below the vision of radar, and without the need for roads.
Drilling holes in the hull of the State since 1978.
Read the book: Sedition Subversion and Sabotage Field Manual No.1
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Re: Subsystems

Postby derrick » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:16 pm

Ben Stone wrote:Cargo.
Yes!

Breaking these systems and functions down into tangible elements that will not only be necessary for the operation of the ship, but also can apply to (and be tested in) other undertakings.

Communications: Necessary for ship operations, but if we can develop a great system for private pirate communications, we can use these methods off-ship, now.
Cargo: Methods and systems to move goods around, keeping them safe and private, sometimes in concert with other pirate allies. Requires: communications, situational awareness.
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Re: Subsystems

Postby Ben Stone » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:56 am

A grievance court

A criminal court

A committee of vigilance that would evaluate the actions of the other two courts and recommend solutions to the courts judgments. Then with the agreement of the court and the committee, decide the action or actions to be taken to rectify the issue and bring true justice.
Drilling holes in the hull of the State since 1978.
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Re: Subsystems

Postby Ben Stone » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:14 pm

Shelter
We are working to develop Freedom Bed n Breakfast to fill this need.

Among other things, you are free to the measure of your ability to travel. But when you travel you must also maintain shelter, either in your vessel or in a port. We feel that shelter shouldn't be tracked, taxed, and regulated by the Crown.
That's where Freedom Bed n Breakfast comes in.

I'll update this as the app develops.
Drilling holes in the hull of the State since 1978.
Read the book: Sedition Subversion and Sabotage Field Manual No.1
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Broke_One
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Re: Subsystems

Postby Broke_One » Sat May 20, 2017 10:34 pm

derrick wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:16 pm
Ben Stone wrote:Cargo.
Yes!

Breaking these systems and functions down into tangible elements that will not only be necessary for the operation of the ship, but also can apply to (and be tested in) other undertakings.

Communications: Necessary for ship operations, but if we can develop a great system for private pirate communications, we can use these methods off-ship, now.
Cargo: Methods and systems to move goods around, keeping them safe and private, sometimes in concert with other pirate allies. Requires: communications, situational awareness.
Communications should be free and open. Ships are often at sea - so communication at a distance is always an issue. Should not all communication be free of taxes levied on the crowns cables?
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Re: Subsystems

Postby BaRbArIaN » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:08 pm

Future comms: find a way to keep an entangled particle in a magnetic trap. its also entangled mate is in another magnetic trap. You can read its spin with a laser. If the laser is polarized, you can make it have one spin or the other depending upon which side of the trapped particle you illuminate with the laser pulse. This can be how you exchange ones and zeros, hence communicate. In theory nobody can eavesdrop on the changes in the entangled partices, although each side is still subject to normal bugging in the room etc.

A side benefit is that in theory there is no range limits or even signal delays, but this has yet to be verified, the Chinese make a lot of claims.

Vision: a and held, private comm with connection to one other anywhere in the solar system or even the universe, with no delays.
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Re: Subsystems

Postby BaRbArIaN » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:38 am

Power:Solar is fine and all, but it currently can't deliver consistent performance Storage can't yet be light enough for most Amps/hours tasks. You have to add something with ooomph like a Thorium Reactor, but those wouldn't be private "legally". Conversely you can reduce the power needs or limit it during dark hours.
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Re: Subsystems

Postby Ernest Hancock » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:28 pm

If you recheck The Big Idea 'introduction' page of this forum you'll see some progress on the CAD for the ship.

I'll include some private posts data we have been discussing while checking our math etc since there is some useful links, measurement and concepts.

The 'Social Subsystems' are of little interest to me right now. The Precariat will be the private property of Captain Marque and he can do, whatever he wants with it. Build it and they will come applies to additional ALT-Ships with their own 'Pirate Code'.

It's the tech that allows for the ship that is disruptive. What someone does with their Liberty and Property is of little interest to me as long as they leave me, my friends, family and customers alone.

So, I wish to focus on the tech.

Subsystems to me are systems that influence things like, Buoyancy, thrust, communications, navigation, power, life support, security & defense, entertainment, food, water, maintenance etc.

Other systems like Gravity, tractor beams, Warp/Quantum drives (CrossBoneDrive - we already have a back story and graphic ideas :) can be incorporated in the design, but not at the risk of usable tech being detailed. Anyone of you that have spent some time on the net looking for advances in these areas and Airships in general see that we are farther than I think most of us realize.

Scan the Tech listed on the "BuildTheShip" category and you'll see what I mean http://pirateswithoutborders.com/buildtheship.

The other categories are just as full of ideas to place in the ship for most if not all of the other systems.
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/buildtheship
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/robots
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/education
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/transportation
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/shelter
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/food
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/healthcare
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/energy
http://pirateswithoutborders.com/communication

We've been years in accumulating announcements and progress reports on just the materials and tech needed to build the ship. This "demonstration" of the tech in the plans for the ship will be much more about people thinking more 3 dimensionally (Freedom is only 100km away... The concept of UP!) The Precariat is not only more possible each day, along with the liberty enhancing tech, it inevitable http://pirateswithoutborders.com/inform ... -build-the

Some resources and discussion about ship design...


Ernest Hancock wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:06 am
I have a request. We need to know the air displacement of the shell. This volume will determine how much it will lift. We'll need to measure the helium/hydrogen air bag volume needed to lift the craft without thrust if possible. The airfoil still needs to be maintained so that capacity is increased with forward thrust/lift.

Hi Ernie. I'm still listening to yesterday's archive. I'm glad you like it.

For cubic volume, I used the main "body" (without the movable wings, engines, "skull", or the tail).

p13.jpg
p13.jpg (9.06 KiB) Viewed 25 times

At its current size, it calculates to 39,309,656 cu.ft. If you chop off the wings (fuselage only), it drops to 23,256,222 cu.ft.

Do airfoil's work at that scale? The wings are over 600' long. I'm not an engineer, but imagine you'd need extreme air flow to get lift from something that large.

I'm sure I'll be too nervous to be useful on the show. I'm very quiet (100% introvert). I'm the complete opposite of you on your show. But if you like, we can try an aftershow, or something where I don't have to worry about sounding horrible.

Thanks.
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Postby Ernest Hancock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:32 pm
https://www.google.com/search?q=lockhee ... 20&bih=987

If it moves it'll provide lift.

Thanks for the calc.

Aftershow, or just a podcast on Monday or even before with the guys while they are here.

The rear of the ship has rocket engines (hard to see in the schematic.

After 10 uses the SpaceX rockets (Merlin and the Raptor engines) go on the used market :)
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Postby Ernest Hancock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:48 pm
Donna Hancock, Producer <producer@DeclareYourIndependenceWithErnestHancock.com>

Please email Donna with your contact info so we can get you on. It'll be fun.

Donna - 602 828 1819
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Postby Ernest Hancock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:54 pm
Question
What is the weight of 1 cubic foot of air?
Asked by: Jonathan

Answer
FINAL ANSWER: 1 cubic foot of air at standard temperature and pressure assuming average composition weighs approximately 0.0807 lbs.
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Postby Ernest Hancock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:26 pm
Helium is less dense than air. Helium has 0.0114 pounds per cubic foot

Hydrogen lifts 68 lbs per 1,000 cubic feet [1], thus ~14.71 cu. ft. per lb

The weight of standard air is 1.2256 Kg/ Cubic Meter.
The weight of hydrogen is 0.0857 Kg/ Cubic Meter. = https://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-vol ... to-m3.html =
Conversion base : 1 ft3 = 0.028316846592 m3 Conversion base : 1 m3 = 35.314666721489 ft3

.0857x.028316846592=0.002426754
Sooo I guess
Hydrogen is 0.002426754 per cubic foot (I'd check this. that's a lot lighter than Helium.

Hydrogen would be an interesting choice since the solar panels can crack water into Hydrogen that can be stored for rocket fuel, along with the Oxygen, and for the bags.

Maybe not "with" the oxygen :)

If you do some of this calculations with as much space as you can use for bags then we'll know what thrust/lift we need and how much weight in material we will get to use

Such as:
23,256,222 cu.ft of the trimmed down ship may need 2/3rds of the space for cargo and people space etc.
So say 8,000,000 Cu.ft. that's
645600 lbs. of air that will be replaced with
19414 lbs of Hydrogen or
91200 lbs of Helium

So that means that we get to use 626186 lbs of structure to make the craft float without any lift or thrust..... interesting.

This is "Napkin Math" and I'd check it. But it gives you an idea. It also explains why you need to have as much air displacement as possible and still keep a lifting shape. But coolness is a factor as well. I like your work.

When you get further along and are able to place where the bags will go then we can start working on the gas vs. open spaces and what thrust we need for Vertical takeoff. Then the aerodynamics of the wing for its lift at what seeds... blah blah blah.

Your work on the displacement just got us a lot further along. Thank you!

After you have time to play with this then we can do some math.

If you ever check these numbers and are comfortable putting together some illustrations with these facts, let me know and we'll put something together for the forum OR you can just start posting these calcs up now and get more people helping with such stuff.

Peace,
Ernie
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Postby Ernest Hancock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:37 pm
This suggests that the calcs I did comparing Helium to Hydrogen were wrong, I hope you get the idea.

The Relative Lifting Ability of Hydrogen and Helium

Although helium weighs twice as much hydrogen, because each gas is so much lighter than air helium provides about 93% of hydrogen’s lift at full purity. In practical operation it is impossible to achieve or maintain 100% purity of either gas, reducing helium’s lifting ability to about 88% of the lift of hydrogen.

The actual lifting ability of each gas varies with temperature, pressure, and humidity, and to take account of varying atmospheric conditions and gas impurities airship designers often conservatively estimated helium’s lift at 60 lbs per 1,000 cubic feet and hydrogen’s lift at 68 lbs per 1,000 cubic feet.

Relative lifting ability of 100% Hydrogen vs. Helium
60° F, Barometric Pressure 29.92″ Hg

Weight of Lifting Gas
(per 1,000 cu. ft.) Weight of Air
(per 1,000 cu. ft.) Net Lift
(per 1,000 cu. ft.)
Hydrogen 5.31 lbs 76.36 lbs 71.05 lbs
Helium 10.54 lbs 76.36 lbs 65.82 lbs


The Effect of Helium on Airship Range and Payload

In actual use, because of physical realities and operational considerations, the use of helium can reduce an airship’s payload lift by almost half.
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Postby Ernest Hancock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:38 pm
http://www.airships.net/helium-hydrogen-airships/

Lot of comparisons here.
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Postby Ernest Hancock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:00 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LKgtdNFi-g

Building light

Carbon Nanotube structure and graphene coating/hydrogen containment
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Re: Subsystems

Postby cameron » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:47 am

TL;DR - 15 floors... 300,472 sq.ft. living space... 2,018,386 lbs. lifting capacity...

Mocked up the interior of the ship. Added 15 floors that are 15' high. This should provide enough room for raised floors & drop ceilings to run electrical, hvac, plumbing, etc.

Level 12/13 is combined into a 30' high bay for ballroom dancing, zero-g basketball, or whatever you like. Levels 14 & 15 are the decks at the top of the ship. At the rear is maintenance, engineering (engine room), and housekeeping. Lots of space back there for life support, HVAC mechanicals, & water/sewage storage. Level 11 wraps around to the wings for more cabins, viewing areas, bar, restaurant, etc. It's a long corridor about 20-25 feet wide.

Total living space is 300,472 sq.ft. (including atrium, engineering, etc.).
p15.jpg
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Subtracting these areas & cargo hold from the main body cavity leaves a lift envelope of 29,682,149 cu.ft. At 68lbs of lift per 1000 cu.ft., it can lift 2,018,386lbs. Or 1009 tons. The "pink balloons" are estimated/visual. They are 1000cu.ft. each (10'x10'x10'). Couldn't manually model and neatly pack 29,682 mylar balloons (that's the engineer's job). Here is the shape of the lifting envelope. Note the channels removed for Level 11 in front of the wings. "Ten Forward", or technically "11 Left" & "11 Right"
p16.jpg
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Of course this abandons the idea of retractable wings, unless you want to sacrifice lifting capacity. I vote for non-retractable wings. The loading platform is also unnecessary with a detachable cargo bay (and would lose more lift capacity). Also thinking about redesigning the archway area when I get around to making the cargo bay detachable. Looking to modify for more space to the lower levels, and allow a level to reach the cargo bay from inside the ship.

Here's a picture from space inside Level 15.
p17.jpg
p17.jpg (180.38 KiB) Viewed 116 times

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