Cargo Design

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cameron
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Cargo Design

Postby cameron » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:29 pm

Have been trying to detach the cargo hold from the ship, so the ship can easily drop and pickup new cargo. Still need to figure out ship weight vs. cargo weight. If it's 50/50. Based on lifting capacity, that's about 500 tons of cargo, and 500 tons for the ship.

Does anyone have ideas how the cargo hold would attach/detach? Locating pins? Docking collar? Ropes & chains? Magnets?

Keep in mind that the mating surface is over 600' long. If the ship were to land and pickup a cargo pod, trying to get it aligned would be a monumental task. Even though the ship is lighter than air, adjusting a floating 500 ton ship would be hard to move around to dock with the cargo docking collar.

And once it's located, how does it "lift" 500 tons of cargo without tearing the ship and/or cargo hold apart? How does the mating surface hold 500 tons to the ship? For example, if they were bolted together, those "bolts" would have to lift and hold 500 tons while in flight (plus any g-forces created by acceleration).

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cameron
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby cameron » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:48 am

How large does the cargo hold need to be? It's currently 2.3 million cu.ft. If cargo capacity is 500 tons, that's 0.43lbs per cubic foot. Seems like there's too much available space if 1 cu.ft. can only "carry" 0.43lbs.

1 cu.ft. of water weighs 63lbs.
1 cu.ft. of steel weighs 490lbs.
1 cu.ft. of gold weighs 1206lbs.
1 cu.ft. of marshmallows weighs 13lbs? (search "Candies, marshmallows")

To use an Ernie-ism... "Get my point?" If you filled the cargo hold with marshmallows, it would weigh 14,950 tons!

If you're mainly transporting 40' shipping containers, they can weigh up to 30 tons each. http://www.dsv.com/sea-freight/sea-cont ... -container A 500 ton cargo hold could only carry 16 fully loaded containers, or 38,244 cu.ft. of cargo.

Is a 2.3 million cu.ft. cargo hold extreme overkill? Or is my math completely wrong?
Ernest Hancock
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby Ernest Hancock » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:19 pm

Good points.

The ability to drop Shipping containers through the floor from cables without even landing would be nice.

But one option would be that the removable pods would be homes/factories/emergency shelters/command posts etc.
Ernest Hancock
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby Ernest Hancock » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:22 pm

https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Magazin ... m?MagNo=23

The cover of this issue of the eZine was about this very concept of building a town in the outback via dropping off completed homes.
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Eduardo Blomar 1679
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby Eduardo Blomar 1679 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:49 pm

My Good Fellow Pirates,

In consideration of receiving/delivering cargo in a Lighter Than Air Vehicle you must remember ballast displacement equal to the cargo for attaining liftoff weight.

I agree with Ernie and add that steel cable should sufficient for standard containers.

Eduardo Blomar 1679
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cameron
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby cameron » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:12 am

Steel cables seem to be the leading solution. So it could evolve into external cargo like the aeroscraft design. http://aeroscraft.com/fleet-copy/4580475518

I was hoping for something more rigid that would "dock" with the ship. That way you could have an airlock between the cargo and the ship. If you wanted a flying indoor driving range, people could move to the cargo hold while in flight. Still working on redesigning the arch to make this possible.

I posted a .blend file of the basic cargo "tub" if anyone wants to play with designing your own cargo module in Blender. There could be a module that can drop shipping containers with steel cable, another could have doors and cranes to load/unload shipping containers, another could be a mobile medical facility, or the interior of your flying house.
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Still trying to figure out how these different cargo holds will attach to the ship, so the design could always change. Or the entire thing could change (shrink?) based on how much space is truly needed.

Currently, the inner "envelope" is just over 2.3 million cu.ft. Roughly 500' long, 125' wide, and 74' tall. The very bottom is 14,400 sq.ft. and 50' up is roughly 40,500 sq.ft.

I still think the volume is too big for the amount of weight it can hold. 0.43lbs per cubic foot isn't much cargo. I think the cargo ships (in the ocean) average 100lbs per cu.ft. making the cargo hold smaller could give more space for the lifting envelope (i.e. more weight capacity).

Of course this is all based on a 500ton capacity (1/2 of total lifting capacity). We still don't know what the rest of the ship will weigh.
Ernest Hancock
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby Ernest Hancock » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:15 pm

I just saw this post and the page you created. My direct email is Publisher@FreedomsPhoenix.com for this sort of stuff so I can communicate to the wider audience of FreedomsPhoenix and the Radio Audience.

Sorry that I just saw this.

https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article ... flight.htm

I just posted the info at the top of FreedomsPhoenix and it'll get out to the subscribers by tonight in the next Email Dispatch. I went into the forums to see what you were working on and saw that you have been busy. Sorry for the delay.

I'll pump for you getting some Holiday Crypto on the show too.

Great Work!

Thanks.

Peace,
Ernie
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cameron
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby cameron » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:11 am

Thanks Ernie. I'll try to let you know via email for major updates.

I setup precariat.us.to so I can eventually post files larger than the 200K limit here on the forums. Posted some STL files and the cargo hold to get people started.

Have been reworking the ship to have the detachable cargo hold, added more lift capacity, and greater living space in the lower levels. Still working out the details.


Also worked on the ion drives in the tail. Thinking about doing the same to the bottom of the ducted fans, but at the same time I worry about crossing over into SCI-FI. I think the ship should stay realistic & practical (with bleeding edge technology). So no laser guns, photon torpedoes, or warp drive : )

Still trying to figure out how they should look.
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All this required structural changes to the ship's mesh. Had to rebuild the bottom of the ship and the tail (there are still parts that are "carved out", that need fixing). Still trying to clean up the model.
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cameron
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby cameron » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:06 am

Have been reworking the cargo hold. Released a new model at http://precariat.us.to/cargohold (please donate!). This cargo hold is the smaller size that fits version 3 of the Precariat.

Have been trying to figure out how to dock with the cargo hold in 3D space (including yaw, pitch, and roll). Haven't been able to come up with anything hi-tech. I suppose a laser guided automatic docking system can take control of the ship and perfectly align it to the cargo hold in any position under any weather conditions. But someone else will have to design it : )

Trying to be practical, all I could come up with is using mooring lines and winches to "pull" the ship into place (the same as ocean ships). The Precariat would float close to the cargo hold, then drop lines to connect at various points.
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With the mooring lines connected, the cargo hold (or the ship) could winch itself into position. Once in position, the ship & cargo hold would "lock" together. The bottom of the ship contains a grid of I-beams that are integrated into the ship's structure.
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Need a structural engineer to do the math, but the largest I-Beam I could find was 24" that weighs ~120lbs per foot. I'm not sure how many beams you would need to lift 500 tons, but made a grid of beams totaling 1786 feet. Which added 107 tons of weight to the ship(!!!). I couldn't find any graphene I-beams. Can someone calculate how much a beam can "lift" per span (ten 95' spans shown) and how many are needed to lift a fully loaded cargo hold?

For the locking mechanism, all I could think was to grab onto the i-beams. Once winched into place, the cargo hold would literally "grab" the ship and hold on (watch yellow clamps at the top of the image).

Image

Hopefully detaching the cargo will be much easier. Just disconnect and float away (after adjusting lift/ballast to compensate for losing the cargo weight).

Cameron
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Eduardo Blomar 1679
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Re: Cargo Design

Postby Eduardo Blomar 1679 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Are we married to using maritime/land based containers? There seems to be a large assortment of Air Cargo containers that weigh considerably less:

https://tinyurl.com/y9c8s7pe

Also, how about a non-detachable area that the cargo loads into via a port (one container at a time) that, when empty, can be filled with gasbags for additional lift?

EB

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